In the rare occassion that my door was closed, my mother's knocking technique was to pound on the door (and scare the hezekiah out of me in the process), and then enter a nano-moment later.

What a warning.

I might not agree with tae's math, but I do agree with his conclusion that there was bad parenting in this situation, although the idea of 'child privacy' is still a ludicrous idea.

Well... it pains me to say, but I think Ambra is 100% correct on this. A parent should be able to listen in on phone conversations of their children... (I personally think it is bad parenting to do so, except in extreme circumstances of the child acting out of control).
As for the "adult" (I use that loosely here) on the other end of the line, well... I think ANY adult talking to a child on the phone should NOT expect privacy... and should expect that parents have the right to monitor their child's phone conversations.

Just sent this e-mail to my parents in light of this bit of news. I think they'll be amused:

----------------------

Mom, Dad in light of current events (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002115125_eavesdrop10m.html) I have setup some rules for the next time I'm staying over your place:

1) You must stay within 50 feet of my room at all times.
2) Locks must be provided for the doors leading to my room. And doorknobs for the bathroom door. Make the best effort so that I don't have to physically participate in the installation of these devices.
3) You cannot listen in on my phone conversations, even if we're in the same room.
4) I have the right to be in a bad mood and bottle those feelings up without speaking to you about it.
5) You will now be addressed by your government names. I CANNOT be addressed as 'son' or .

Thank you,
Alex

From the same judicial mentality that enforces a civic allergy to mangers, menorahs and other religious symbols in public this holiday season. Reason # 257043278 not to vote Democrat. So birds like this one are less likely to settle on the bench.

Why on earth does the government think they can tell us how to raise our children???

Since when do we live in the People's Repuublic of America!

Judges like this are EVIL.

One day some moron kid is going to sue because he parents won't let her date until she is 16. And some moron judge will tell us it is not our right to set limits for our children.

UUGGGHHHH!

That's that good Nino Brown crack.

Mmmmmmm-mmmmmmmmm good!

Tae, I have to disagree with you here. Children are not equal, under the law, to emancipated adults. Can children vote? Can children get drivers' licenses? Slavery is illegal, but can we really expect that some court somewhere will uphold a child's "right" to refuse to do chores on that basis?

If an adult smacks another adult, that's assault. In most states, it's still legal for a parent to give his or her own child a swift spank to reinforce a disciplinary lesson.

Common sense has taken a leave of absence in this case.

Iono about the legalities, but that's just not cool, morally. You should have a level of trust and respect that comes from showing interest and concern but respects boundaries. What kind of relationship can you have from snooping on your kid's phone calls? It's overreaching and desperate.

Tey - when did judges ever let the written law confine them?
Washington State is now finding out that, when votes are recounted, they are allowed to go through the trash to find anything that looks like a democrat vote.

Carmen Dixon is a nut. This woman trusts/allows her daughter to lay up with a grown man,but won't let her have a private conversation on the phone. This Dixon woman needs to decide whether she is raising a child or baby sitting an adult. She can't have it both ways.

1) Yes; clearly this mother was parentally challenged. Letting her teenage child date a 22 year old man is mistake number one. Unfortunately, that doesn't change what I'm pointing out in this instance.

2) "The law is not the law". Statutes mean nothing without interpretation. The judge's job is to apply and interpret the law. If the law was just the law, people couldn't plea legal insanity and we wouldn't have killers walking around free or all other kinds of provisions made by the "choose your own adventure" gang. Give me a break. I passed on law school, but I at least know that much.

3) Eavesdropping on children who are making bad decisions is morally wrong? I don't think anyone's talking about a best practice here, but more an act of concern. I realize there is a school of parenting that doesn't believe a suspicious parent should go through their child's drawer or listen in on a conversation, but quite frankly, it just didn't go down like that in our household. So if being raised that way turned out well for you. Great; but to this day, I wish my own parents had been up in my business even more when I was growing up. One of the big roles of parents is to protect their children at all costs. If that means breaking the liberal code of morality, so be it.

Alex: I love it. Let me know if you wake up alive the next day.

Aw, geez, now why'd ya hafta go an call it a "liberal" code of morality ;-)

The law should allow the owner of a residential phone to listen to conversations if it is a child on the phone or an adult. It ought to be a "when you pay the mortgage" sort of thing.

As for the practical parental side of it all... I'm trying to think of a case I know where "violations of privacy" ever came to a good end.

On the other hand, my Mom knew my business. I didn't tell her everything I ever did but she knew who I was with and (in general terms) what I was doing. But I had friends whose parents forbade them to have certain people as friends. They told me about this and defended their parents as doing what all good Christian parents should do, and then confessed that they just went behind their parent's backs and hung out with those forbidden people anyway. And now we've got deception and secrets. How nice. But they still insisted that my parents were questionable in the "Good Christian Parent" category because they allowed me to choose my own friends.

My parents knew my friends and knew my business. I did not have secret friends.

I met a girl at summer Bible Camp and we became pen pals. She wrote me about a boy she met who was sooo cute (we were that age) and I wrote back to her and mentioned him. She wrote back to me and said to never ever mention boys in my letters because her mother read them. I was shocked. She hadn't confessed anything bad and I hadn't mentioned anything bad, just a boy. She stopped writing. I saw her brother at summer camp after that but I never saw her again. What was really going on? I don't know. But I do know how it would feel to get grilled by my parents for the casual mention of a boy and to feel like I had to have secrets from them.

My best friend's mother was so sure she'd sleep around that she wasn't allowed to go to anyone elses house for a sleep-over. I *do* know what was going on in that case... Mom expected her daughter to do the same things that she had done. The lack of trust had nothing to do with my friend, who like me, did not drink and graduated high-school a virgin.

Another girl in my class, whose mother was listening in on her phone call and heard her arrange to meet a friend and a boy, and grounded her for it, eventually was thrown out of the house (before high school graduation.) Here, again, I don't know at all what was going on between her and her mother, and I'll admit she didn't hang out with the best crowd, but somehow this *helped*? I don't see that it helped at all. Her father slipped her money to live off of on the sly. Her brother always had a "good boy" reputation, and while it's probably mostly true, he's the one who ended up with a pregnant teen-aged girlfriend. (The Valedictorian of my brother's class.)

What good does snooping do? If it does any good at all it would be catching a crook, as in the story. And if a parent suspects drugs, looking through drawers isn't optional, it's necessary. But if a parent is reduced to reading mail and listening in on phone calls... the relationship is already down the crapper. That is a fact.

There is a difference between the expectation of openness about what everyone is doing and checking up on someone because of a lack of trust.

Right Julie and I think my point was that snooping shouldn't be a best practice due to paranoia, on the occasion of discernment.

Tae: Every day, and I mean EVERY day, I deal with state statutes and I will tell you that there are all kinds of provisions deals made. The american legal system isn't absolute by any stretch of the imagination.

If it was, I wouldn't have my job right now because applying and interpreting the law, well, that's part of what I do.

We can talk all this interpretation of the law privacy crap all we want to...Any child living under their pparents household is subject to the parents laws! Now we know this does not include physical sexual crap but you better believe that PARENTS ARE ENTITLED when they want to to listen into their childs conversations go in their drawers check under their matress etc. My parents did and i thank them for it. Under Gods law the HOly Scriptures it is Parents God-Given responsibility to shape rear and lead their children in the proper direction...
So we can talk all this Dr. Spock "invasion of privacy, the parent needs to respect" mumbo jumbo
but that has directly contributed to the current mess that we have of a society... Where parents dont know what is happening with their children... Thank God for the parents that intercept the foolishness of childrens error...If a child wants to be deceptive and can't abide by their parents rules then that is their problem. At least there were parameters that they know they had to adhere to.
AD

Tae, the fantasy scenario you've just spun out makes no sense at all. A 14-year-old cannot legally enter into any kind of contract. No business person in their right mind would enter into any kind of development or licensing deal for a kid's idea except through the kid's parent or legal representative.

With rights come responsibilities. Society recognizes that kids can't handle the responsibilities... why do some of these people believe that kids should have the rights, anyway? It doesn't make any sense.

My children have been notified regularly and repeatedly that they have no expectation of privacy in MY house. When they have their own houses and they reach the leagal age of majority, they may set their own rules. They are well aware that they live in a benevolent dictatorship. (When I say please, I'm just being polite...it's really a command.) I don't really care what the law says...I get to make the rules in my house. Try taking that discussion outside of the house and see where it gets you.

Sometimes they don't like it, but I believe they realize that I take an interest in their lives and have their best interests in mind.

Scott, I love it.

Parenting is all about interfering with the choices of children. In a loving way.

To refinance:

Boo to your employees spamming blogs with your contact info. Goes on my do not do business with list.

Also noted to the home office