Ok, did you have to post that picture? :(

was there any talk ever, that michael jackson sued his plastic surgeon? before I read a word I was stunned at the picture of him. What went wrong there?
I agree with you on this one. Our world has become a dangerous place for our children. How many allegations and testimonies do there have to be before this lunatic is stopped?
Child molestation (N.A.M.B.L.A.) should be a BIG priority of our lawmakers. Instead they are worried about co-pays. Are we to be force fed tolerance on this as well?

My fear is that since every sensible person knows that Michael Jackson is guilty, guilty, guilty, the jury will consist of nutjobs who actually think he might be innocent *cough*OJ*cough*.

Could you take down the pic and put up a warning with a link to it... NotSafeForWork or WeakStomachs or something?

Just to clarify, you said, "...researchers in this country refuse to draw any type of correlation between pornography and child molestation." I think it would be quite correct to say "between child pornography and child molestation" but I think imputing a connection between pornography in general and child molestation in particular would be a bridge too far. Considering the breadth of porn's reach these days, there is probably a stronger correlation with being a Catholic priest and being a child molester than simply being a porn consumer.

In any case, I agree on the general point that Michael is sick, sick, sick and if he doesn't get help he needs to be locked up. It is interesting to ponder why he receives far more sympathy from the public than say OJ.

-cwk.

See, I think that the pornography - child molestation link is blaring in the wilderness. Especially when a lot of pornography these days has homosexual overtones. THe point is, it conditions peoples' minds to think unhealithy about sex and any time that happens, the door is open to all kinds of thoughts. Perversion only leads to more perversion.

But Geraldo Rivera came out and said he was absolutely 100% sure that Jackson was innocent.

Amazing huh.

While I do believe that there are those who can view pornography without it progressing to other deviant behaviors, I also believe that it triggers those deviant behaviors in others. It's like Ambra said whenever we open the door to unhealthy behavior or thoughts who knows what we let in, and who knows if we will be able to control it.

I remember when LaToya first started talking about life behind the Jackson facade. Everyone said she was just nuts. It's sad and ironic that just about everything she said is turning out to be true.

I remember when LaToya first started talking about life behind the Jackson facade. Everyone said she was just nuts. It's sad and ironic that just about everything she said is turning out to be true.

*blink*.

I'm glad to admit I never even heard of Homeboys In Outer Space before now.

People actually watch UPN?

I agree with Ambra.

You have to willfully step onto Satan's territory in order to receive influence.

I'll save myself from being called a crazy fundy by not going into a lesson on demonology.

Plus, I don't have any time :(

You're right about that, Alex & Ambra. That's also one reason why the Bible states that it is unseemly to talk openly about matters of the bedroom.

Some people can handle booze or nicotine, but plenty of others will also tell you they wished they never started. That's the same with pornography, eventually there comes a point when ye old bunny boringly looks like all the rest and it's time for something new, exciting provocative etc, etc.

*can't catch my breath*

I think you have succeeded in guaranteeing me nightmares for the next few days. That picture is horrifying!

Ambra,

Agree with your commentary.

But, no one's ever taking my copy of Thriller away from me! He could molest a troop of Boy Scouts, but that album will always be in my CD player.

Ok...crude comment on my behalf...

As long as as he stays in California, where a good majority of people that live there are liberals, he won't go to prison. But I agree - there is a special place in hell for this person (I don't consider him a man).

Hope the job market is working out for you!

Tae, we'll agree to disagree. I don't even think you and I are addressing this issue on the same planet let alone the same level.

I'd say your compassion level is rising, Nykola. In my view, it's far more compassionate, both to MJ as well as to his alleged victims (okay, his victims), to hold him accountable.

I think it has little to do with the fact that he's a pop-icon (or was before he started convincing surgeons to turn him into one of his zombies from the "Thriller" video). I think most of America has long been aware that the entire Jackson family is wacked. It's too bad we can't ship his "mother" and "father" off to the big house along with him.

It's typical that it would be the Hollywood crowd who comes to his defense. These are the same people who think Americans are so provincial with our outdated notions of "age of consent" and such.

IMO, Michael Jackson will never spend a day in jail. Not because he may or may not be found guilty, but given the current state of his career, finances and legal affairs, I think we're all gonna wake up one morning to the news that Michael has committed suicide.

Michael Jackson is one of those famous names I've known most of my life. (I'm 48) At one time, he was considered the greatest entertainer in the world. Today, he is a tragic figure and example of so many things that go wrong when a person gives themself over to idolization. His picture makes me feel very sorry for him. (I easily remember what he looked like in his youth)It's as though MJ represents that part of my human weakness that rejects what God made, and wants to remake myself into an image that I am happy and pleased with. There are things I'd liked to have changed about my physical self when I was younger. I thank God I didn't, though I have a little bit of understanding as to the temptation to do so. Michael Jackson has the resources to change his physical image in ways that boggle the mind. It's as though Michael Jackson is completely Man Made, like a product purchased on a shelf, rather than a creation made in His image. I'd like to hear feedback because what I believe is that people are repulsed by Michael Jackson's image at a gut level. In their spirit. Here's my base analogy, what was once Lucifer, has become Satan. What say you?

tae...you are more "out" than you know.....you really are one of those people who would have to see it in person with their own eyes...right? all the evidence in the world wouldn't convince you.
maybe instead of having so much empathy for the michael jacksons' of the world...you could try having some for the innocent kids he molested? just a thought...
and thanks for the photo ambra...i am still trying to poke out my mind's eye...LOL.

This weblog isn't a court of law; it's a court of Ambra, and Ambra says he's guilty, he's sick, and he needs deliverance.

And whether or not he's convicted in a court of law, he still needs deliverance.

I remember that poster of Michael in the 80's, where he is wearing a yellow (sounds dorky, but it was actually cool) suit-outfit thing. He looked great and I think at the time had had a little bit of 'work' done, but not the overboard stuff. He really should have stopped right there. He was perfect. But then, oh my, it went south from there......

Yep, Ambra, he needs deliverance alright....

Wellk tae, you choose to subject yourself to my court everytime you read this blog. Unless you're masochistic, I suggest you stop. Otherwise, deal.

Tae--you're missing the point of the fifth amendment. If Ambra was calling for a vigilante squad to stage a hit on Jackson, she would be depriving him of his fifth amendment rights. She not calling for the deprivation of his life, liberty or property without a trial. The fifth amendment does not preclude anyone from expressing an opinion about someone's guilt before a verdict. It would be awfully difficult to prosecute a case if it did.

As to judgment, why is it okay for you to proclaim Bush a "false Christian?" I don't recall seeing a trial conducted for him and his religious beliefs.

Tae (or whatever your real name is), I'm only going to say this once. You might not be able to ignore people like me, but I have trouble reciprocating that reality. I can ignore folk very easily and while I've certainly given you plenty of liberty on my site to rant on, it is my site, and I fully grasp why I am gree to run it, so leaving 1500 word comments that no one has the time or energy to read, whatever the duty you feel to exposed marginalized thnking (of which there is very little here), is about to get you banned from commenting, so I suggest you check yourself quick and in a hurry.

I rarely even edit comments (although 50% of yours qualify), let alone ban people, but you and your gnostic, psuedo-deep world in which you live, with clearly very little understanding of God, the things of God, and anything that remotely touches Him has left a bad taste in mouth, and I don't appreciate the way you just addressed me. Period.

I'm edgy today, so you'd be wise not to respond to this and just change the way you've been commenting henceforth.

P.S. I'm not now nor have I ever been your dear. Cut that out.

People read tae's posts?

Alex, I scrolled right by tae's posts, but I read Ambra's and she is absolutely right!

What is America smoking?

I’m not sure but it seems the best reason I ever heard of to go back to tobacco.

Tae

If Jackson did the crime he is guilty, if not he is innocent. The courts presume he is innocent until the presumption of innocence is rebutted beyond a reasonable doubt. But that does not mean one cannot have or express a personal opinion. All Ambra’s comments did is disqualify her to sit on Jackson’s jury. Let me disqualify myself from jury duty, I think he’s guilty.

The news media operates in cycles- based on its own habits and standards as current events. Whenever a Big Important Story plays itself out, it focuses its attention on the cheezy, sleezy, and scandalous. Now that a Big Important Story, the Iraqi election, is over- holy smokes, Lou Dobbs working on a Sunday- on to two ready-made events to take to its collective breast- Super Bowl 39, featuring my Phila. Iggles, and the Michael Jackson trial. I have exhausted any patience or outrage against this creature. Make no mistake- regardless of this or any other trial he faces for his alleged nocturnal activities, he will be stone cold broke by age 50. No more Neverland, no more retinues, no more family member sponging off him. And no more hit records to support those habits- or people. Something the news media won't face in its instinctive pursuit of the cheezy and sleezy.

As Ray said, I wouldn't be surprised if before year's end this will all be over...

Oh BTW, I think your pornography-homosexuality-molestation link is pretty bogus...you had me until someone threw homosexuality into the mix.

On what basis do you find the link between pornography and its outgrowths bogus?

I'm confused. Did you remove some comments? Like Tae got banned, but then his earlier comments were also removed? It's odd reading a response and wondering what the original statement was.

While I do recognize a link b/t pornography and sexual abuse of all kind, I don't think that you can blindly throw homosexuality into the mix because *you* (collective you) think that they are perverse. Frankly, I am tired of folks portraying homosexuals as being these perverted individuals who prey on the innocent! If folks would get beyond their bias and actually get to know gay people you would know that is not the case. That is like me saying that all southern white folks are card carrying members of the KKK and are out to lynch or rape me given the chance. It is an inaccurate characterization of an entire group of people based on the "sins" of a few.

While some sexual abuse of children accurs b/t men and boys, the majority of sexual abuse of children occurs b/t men and female children. Both are horrible acts that rob a child of their humanity. The gender of the perpetrator or the victim make no difference! So, while good, straight, "Christian" folk are quick to point the finger at gay folk, dig up your own backyard and see what mess you find.

I agree with most of what you said with the exception of your statements on pornography. Researchers don't find a link because the link YOU are looking for isn't there. It's bad science to say that pornography drives a person to do anything. It's the same as saying 98% (fictitious number for the sake of the argument) of the people involved in car accidents eat carrorts, therfore carrots must cause car accidents. The people driven to harm children or perform other horrific crimes do so because something inside them is broken. Not because they were exposed to pornography. Homosexuality was around long before pornography. Sexual perversions (however you define that, and it's different for everyone) have been around long before pornography. People are going to be good and honest or they are not. People are going to behave in a morrally acceptable manner or they are not. Pornography is not the smoking gun you want it to be.

whatever you say "Revolutionist"

Bad science, "Revolutionist"?
I can double dog guarantee you that pornography successfully drives nearly 100% of viewers to do something.
You cannot seriously believe that pornography viewers just do it to pass the time.
If a pathology is already present in the viewer, that pathology is likely to be exacerbated by viewing any pornography.

now that'll preach. I feel a post comin' on...

"While I do recognize a link b/t pornography and sexual abuse of all kind, I don't think that you can blindly throw homosexuality into the mix because *you* (collective you) think that they are perverse. Frankly, I am tired of folks portraying homosexuals as being these perverted individuals who prey on the innocent! If folks would get beyond their bias and actually get to know gay people you would know that is not the case. That is like me saying that all southern white folks are card carrying members of the KKK and are out to lynch or rape me given the chance. It is an inaccurate characterization of an entire group of people based on the "sins" of a few.

While some sexual abuse of children accurs b/t men and boys, the majority of sexual abuse of children occurs b/t men and female children. Both are horrible acts that rob a child of their humanity. The gender of the perpetrator or the victim make no difference! So, while good, straight, "Christian" folk are quick to point the finger at gay folk, dig up your own backyard and see what mess you find.
Posted by btrfly at February 1, 2005 07:32 AM"

~I may have missed something but, what is the point which you are trying to get across?

*blink twice* How did my UPN/Homeboys comment end up on this thread?

Relevantly, I think you mean "causation", not "correlation"? Finding a correlation between pornography (though, er, what do we mean by "pornography"? Maxim? Playboy? Penthouse? European every-kind-of-perversion-we-can-find DVDs? I'd imagine there'd be some sort of useful difference between all of the above, but they can all be called "pornography" by someone.) and child molestation is going to be much easier and more likely than finding a causal link.

I doubt that such a causal link exists, and I tend to agree with Revolutionist.

Glen: I hate to say this (well, actually, no, I don't), but most "pornography", in my experience, is not pathological at all. Jackson's "child erotica" is by far the exception, not the rule. Pictures of naked women just aren't pathological, nor "unhealthy", as far as I can tell.

If you or Ambra are going to tell me such pictures are (that is, if you're not talking specifically and only about the smaller subset of "pornography" which goes beyond nudity or relatively normal sexual intercourse, which seems undeniably non-pathological in itself - I imagine a "porn addict" could be pathological with regard to them, but someone with an eating disorder is pathological about cookies, without the cookies being themselves unhealthy or even causing the disorder. See my point here?), I want to see some actual data. Otherwise we're just speculating to our preconceptions, no?